# Are Human Drivers Finally Obsolete?  ## Episode metadata - Episode title: Are Human Drivers Finally Obsolete? - Show: Freakonomics Radio - Owner / Host: Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher - Guests: [Don Burnette](https://share.snipd.com/person/00fd2904-9e9d-446b-8f2e-e90d7f19e6bd), [PJ Vogt](https://share.snipd.com/person/980c86a7-8082-4e12-9765-9705ef02fce8), [Sebastian Thrun](https://share.snipd.com/person/4ba8dc26-1231-4730-8898-f1e3f504035f) - Episode publish date: 2026-03-20 - Episode AI description: PJ Vogt, Search Engine reporter and narrator, follows the secret Google project that put driverless cars on real roads. Don Burnette, Kodiak AI founder and early Google self-driving engineer, recalls the messy challenge of teaching a Prius human-like judgment. Sebastian Thrun, Stanford roboticist and DARPA winner, revisits the race, the Google bet, Waymo’s rise, Uber’s chaos, and the looming threat to driving jobs. - Mentioned books: [Driven](https://share.snipd.com/book/4fad704e-669a-4a2f-a260-3cc08d24c269) by [Manny Khoshbin](https://share.snipd.com/person/1f6ef903-7904-4890-9099-b334da14e157) - Duration: 01:11:28 - Episode URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/episode/03bfcc1d-b4b6-4a60-9847-3b9ea69e33b6) - Show URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/show/77af7fd9-dd24-4eb7-baf2-0910959d19bb) - Export date: 2026-05-08T10:38:03 ## Snips ### [Drivers Organize And Win Local Fights Against Automation](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ea5244e3-4897-4901-8f58-16297827c430) 🎧 01:15:22 - 01:16:43 (01:21) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/a1143ab8-dc59-43af-97e6-1ab16f438e8b" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Drivers are unionizing and partnering with politicians in many U.S. cities to resist replacement by robot vehicles. - PJ Vogt notes that so far these organized efforts are succeeding in several blue cities, blocking automation locally. #### 💬 Quote > These drivers are represented by unions, backed by politicians, and in cities across America, blue cities, they're organizing. > — PJ Vogt PJ Vogt on drivers organizing against automation #### 📚 Transcript **PJ Vogt:** drivers are represented by unions, backed by politicians, and in cities across America, blue cities, they're organizing. So far, they're winning. Humans drive this city, not machines. Labor drives this city. Keep the workers in the workforce. If it works in another city, great. Have fun. Not here. Not Boston. Thank you. **PJ Vogt:** Next week, the fight to save a job. To save the human driver. Don't miss this one. **Stephen J. Dubner:** Many thanks to PJ Vogt and the entire search engine team for this story. You will hear part two right here on Freakonomics Radio very soon. Until then, take care of yourself. And if you can, someone else too. Freakonomics Radio is produced by Renbud Radio. You can find our entire archive on any podcast app. It's also at Freakonomics.com, where we publish transcripts and show notes. For Search Engine, this episode was produced by Emily Malter. The show was created by PJ Vogt and Shruthi Pinamaneni. Garrett Graham is their senior producer. Leah Reese-Dennis is their executive producer. Fact-checking was done by Mary Mathis. --- Created with [Snipd](https://www.snipd.com) | Highlight & Take Notes from Podcasts